Division of People over Jesus(NASB John 7:40-53)
40Some of the people therefore, when they heard these words, were saying, “This certainly is the Prophet.” 41Others were saying, “This is the Christ.” Still others were saying, “Surely the Christ is not going to come from Galilee, is He? 42“Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?” 43So a division occurred in the crowd because of Him. 44Some of them wanted to seize Him, but no one laid hands on Him.
45The officers then came to the chief priests and Pharisees, and they said to them, “Why did you not bring Him?” 46The officers answered, “Never has a man spoken the way this man speaks.” 47The Pharisees then answered them, “You have not also been led astray, have you? 48“No one of the rulers or Pharisees has believed in Him, has he? 49“But this crowd which does not know the Law is accursed.” 50Nicodemus (he who came to Him before, being one of them) said* to them, 51“Our Law does not judge a man unless it first hears from him and knows what he is doing, does it?” 52They answered him, “You are not also from Galilee, are you? Search, and see that no prophet arises out of Galilee.” 53£[Everyone went to his home.
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Division over who Jesus is?! Somethings have not changed…there is still huge division over who people say that Jesus is. Just HIS name can cause division among those who love HIM and those who hate HIM, you really can’t be a peace maker in that situation. Wonder if this crowd was up in arms during this confrontation, agreeing and disagreeing…just wondering…. I wrote a post on this the beginning of the year, and you can read who I say Jesus is here. Curious who do you think or say that Jesus is? This is critical to our salvation. We truly need to know and believe who Jesus is, and that there is no other way to God but through HIM. The rest is deception, and as harsh as that may sound, hell is actually much more harsh.
I love how Nicodemus, steps forward, and although it doesn’t say that he believes, he is still trying to pacify, and state the law in which the pharisees use against the people. Nicodemus asks…”don’t we ask him first, before we judge him?” you know the whole innocent until proven guilty thing! (again somethings haven’t changed) Thier answer is very intriguing…first accusational..”you are not from Galilee are you?”, and then “search and see that no prophet rises up in Galilee”. I am amazed at through the Bible how people of power are always trying to interfere with the plan of God, as if they can stop it. They give it their best shot, but NO ONE can stop the plans God has, and everytime they try it only strengthens the believer, and shines HIS glory all that much brighter! Praise God! (that is my DADDY!) HE takes the bad and makes it good. I am crazy about HIM! (sorry bunny trail)
ponderings of a princess... 
“I love how Nicodemus, steps forward, and although it doesn’t say that he believes, he is still trying to pacify….” I don’t know why this made me smile…LOL
I love that the Lord began this post for you at the beginning of the year…that it wonderful. My favorite thing to ask people is “Do you know my Jesus”….sometimes it brings tears, sometimes anger, sometimes a LONG discussion…but it never returns void.
“Never has a man spoken the way this man speaks.”
And never will again, til He comes back with a shout, and say “Enough”. I love you Darla….praying for those little kiddos on that big ol’ bus of yours…. ♥
DARLA!!! Sometimes we shouldn’t think so much alike! Now I have to rethink my post…and I only have til tomorrow!!
Yes. Amen. We have so many different ideas about who Jesus is — but only the definition He gives of Himself will suffice. It does cause division, but that’s what He said it would do.
I love you! Hope your day is a good one.
Michelle- your post will be wonderful..even on the same thing..can we ever really get to much thinking on who Jesus is? I need to think on it everyday..good focus point!
Debs- I love Nicodemus! I love that it doesn’t say much about him, but enough to make me believe he did believe, and it had to be hard to be riding the fence…ouch! Love ya
Who is He? He is my friend! Just one of many things He is to me. When I worship with Darla on one side and mama on the other side – He is a friend to all three – and loves me so! Praying for you today!
lol…I did laugh out loud at the fact that you are right…some things don’t change.
I also love the fact that Nicodemus stepped up for Jesus, after having secretly come to Jesus earlier in the book. Something must have changed him incredibly during that meeting!
Kind of a divergent path here but go with me…
It seems that there are many paths to Christ. Not salvation that only comes through and because of Christ. But everyone’s story to the point of accepting Christ is different. His teachings are the same to everyone. But if the stories that lead to Christ are different wouldn’t it make since that everyone’s Jesus looks different to them, and interacts different with them?
Just a thought… Carry on… 😉
“wouldn’t it make since that everyone’s Jesus looks different to them, and interacts different with them”
This is loaded and cocked.
You need to draw this out further, with specific examples. This could describe something as Christ centered as different vocations or it could be inclusiveness (using the term technically) to the point of apostasy and idolatry.
What you have said has a range of manifestations from innocuous to damning.
Please think about what you say.
Actually inclusiveness, again technically speaking, is idolatry and possibly apostasy.
Jason
I fully understand where you are coming from with your comment.
All I am saying is that Christ communicates and talks to His children in many different ways, and all of us have different stories about how Christ drew us to him. All you have to do is look at how all the people in the bible interacted with God and then Jesus in different ways.
In a way Jesus is the ultimate includer in that his message and salvation is open to everyone no matter their story that leads them to His truth, but come the point of salvation they must do so forsaking their past story for His truth.
We become devisive when we start messuring the strength of one persons faith against the strength of another.
Darla~I know the division part a little too well given the dynamics with my family. I wrote a general post today about how I have now come to a point where I am confident in my faith to be around others who do not know Him and not feel guilty about listening to people talk about other “gods” or another “faith.”
It is frustrating when I meet people who do not know Him; not because I’m judging them or think that I’m better than them but because it’s sad to me that they don’t have the joy and hope that I do in Christ. I see them say things like there is no hope or it’s over and if I try to bring Christ up [at the times where God lets me know it’s appropriate] they are not willing to listen.
I praise God though for the wisdom to follow the Spirit in such conversations. I know I can’t save anybody. I know I can’t force anybody to come to a place of understanding. Only God is able to change hearts. He can use me in the process but only He can determine when, how, and with who. So I trust Him to lead me in that responsibility and in the meantime I pray for those that do not know Him and pray for my patience and peace with them.
Love you 🙂
I understand, I think CK.
But let me just look at a couple of things. You wrote regarding the “before”,
“all of us have different stories about how Christ drew us to him,”
and
“In a way Jesus is the ultimate includer in that his message and salvation is open to everyone no matter their story that leads them to His truth.”
These two phrases speak of Christ bringing us to him, but then you correctly say in matters of the “after”,
“but [to] come the point of salvation they must do so forsaking their past story for His truth.”
This seems to indicate that, in many, many important ways, there is no difference from believer to believer, which speaks against, not for, your point.
But you mixed the “before” and “after” in your original post:
“But if the stories that lead to Christ are different wouldn’t it make since that everyone’s Jesus looks different to them.”
The incongruency is that you presume that external differences to the unbeliever remain for the believer, and not only that they remain, but that “Jesus looks different to them.” The danger is that, for many that lurk in these blogs, this is the doorway to inclusiveness they are looking for.
When you say “includer” and I say “inclusiveness” we mean different things. Inclusiveness is the modern heresy in which a person can come to faith in Jesus Christ, without any knowledge or sense of Christ at all. That Christ died for his people, but that doesn’t mean that they have to know Christ. This was part of the mess of Vatican II and it rotten throughout much of Emergent and Emerging religions. And our chronically “live and let live” selves very often fall into this trap, witlessly much of the time, but sometimes because that is what is actually believed.
Divisiveness is more than legitimate, it is utterly biblical if the big ways are where these differences lie.
You cite,
“how all the people in the bible interacted with God and then Jesus in different ways.”
but this needs to be applied in how Christ effects his saving work in their life before they are ‘his’, not after. After, God deals very strongly with people trying to interact with him in ways that he has not said that he desires. The entire Old Testament rings of this sort of apostasy and idolatry and God’s judgment, as well as his forbearance, upon it.
“We become devisive when we start messuring the strength of one persons faith against the strength of another.”
I don’t know what this means. How does this apply to what Darla or I said?
GCH – your middle paragraph sums up where papa gets frustrated as well. I struggle with the reality that this is a decision that will last for eternity.
Carl: I’m sorry, but we become divisive when we start conforming God to everyone, instead of everyone to God. It’s not about measuring strength of one’s faith against another, it’s about total submission to Him and His Word. Usually people who do not wish to do this will then accuse others of being divisive so that they can continue in their lifestyle.
Jason, Deborah
Trust me I am in complete agreement with the both of you point for point, and I truly appreciate your correction.
Jason I see your point here completely:
I did not re-read what I posted close enough, and agree with this 100%.
Debs, don’t be sorry… I wasn’t careful with what I was saying… I learned. Thanks for being one to keep me straight.
Deborah and Jason are being the opposite of divisive by showing me what I said to to be a slippery slope, and doing so in the spirit of Love.
Love to you both.
I was only pointing out the incongruity, not that I actually thought you held to it.
Thanks, CK.
A very good discussion here today..sorry I missed it. It was 92 here today and I was in it from 6:30 am to 5 pm..family..and many things to do..sorry I am just wiped out. 😦
My two cents..
Jesus cannot be anything but Jesus. That is pretty much how it is..”No man comes to the Father but by me” I am also reminded that we are to be odd to the world…not flaky, just different because something different is motivating us. Like GCH said..it saddens me when others don’t get it, and I have to put them in God’s hands and know that HE knows.
I think what I got from what Carl was saying is this…
new believers see HIM as different things like deliverer, prince of peace..etc…
but as they grow the new believer must learn that HE is all things, everything we need for all situations, it is complacency to pick one thing we like about HIM and hold that only dear to us…I don’t think that constitutes loving HIM with all our heart soul mind and strength…and it also puts them in the category of Luke warm, in which case…HE says HE will spit them out.
Jesus was then and is still offensive to the non-believer up to the point of believing. I have watched many battles within non-believers, and all before the turning point. surrender to HIM as King of their heart/life.
Jesus also said HE came to bring a sword…HIS word is alive and active…and cuts…
I don’t know if I added to the mix here, or am to tired to make sense… but I love you all and thank you for being real.
😆 I was late in finishing my comment..and now I am glad we are all in agreement..I really thought we were…
😉
Darla.. It is all good here…
I grew today.. And my love and respect for Jason and Debs grew also.
Praying for you to have a better day tomorrow.
Love ya sister.
Oh
wait
I forgot
to
say yes
you radiate Christ, and his beauty.
Carl- 🙂 you are an awesome gift from God. Thank you for being you.
Darla: This is so true! When I was reading the chapter for this week I was also struck with all the different ways people were “perceiving” Jesus. I think so many times we try to cast Him in our own image or with our own ideas of who we think He should be rather than coming to Him on His terms in the way He has revealed Himself to us.
Joe is correct… God meets us where we are, when he does we need to submit to Him on His terms.
Wow, these comments were a doozie. Well done folks, on how you handled a potentially divisive conversation. Really. you floored me.
Loved your thoughts, Darla. Nicodemus presented a common ground which they were all supposed to agree on … and instead of meeting him on that ground, they attacked him. It does show the irrationality of those who fight God. Which, as you’ve so wonderfully put, doesn’t work anyway. He always wins. 🙂
OK, just now catching up with the discussion.
Darla, I did not rewrite it – this was the point I saw as well. We’ll just see if there’s any discussion left in these people. 😉